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Post by marimba11 on May 22, 2022 17:14:12 GMT -6
From what I heard Keller was still recovering from their 2018 Macy’s trip until as recently as 2020, it’s definitely one of the most expensive trips for a band I know from experience that it easily costs over a million dollars to send a band (in this case, of ~250 members) to Macy’s. Makes sense! I think with Tarpon doing Orlando too and GN or Johnson City AND Macy’s they will have a great season whichever they choose.
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Post by saturdaynightlights on May 22, 2022 18:33:03 GMT -6
From what I heard Keller was still recovering from their 2018 Macy’s trip until as recently as 2020, it’s definitely one of the most expensive trips for a band It doesn't help that Tarpon is planning on essentially everything they did in 2013 PLUS more Broadway workshops and a choreo workshop for the guard.
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Post by paddy on May 23, 2022 7:16:43 GMT -6
From what I heard Keller was still recovering from their 2018 Macy’s trip until as recently as 2020, it’s definitely one of the most expensive trips for a band It doesn't help that Tarpon is planning on essentially everything they did in 2013 PLUS more Broadway workshops and a choreo workshop for the guard. Highlighting once again why Tarpon isn't really a AA program...
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50fly
Senior Member
Posts: 54
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Post by 50fly on May 23, 2022 8:14:48 GMT -6
It doesn't help that Tarpon is planning on essentially everything they did in 2013 PLUS more Broadway workshops and a choreo workshop for the guard. Highlighting once again why Tarpon isn't really a AA program... How so? Classifications are by school size, not resources. There are plenty of AAAA schools that lack resources and plenty of affluent A schools with abundant resources. I am all for switching over to a DCI/WGI style classifications system tho, since school/band size is not necessarily a harbinger for success
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Post by marimba11 on May 23, 2022 9:04:18 GMT -6
Highlighting once again why Tarpon isn't really a AA program... How so? Classifications are by school size, not resources. There are plenty of AAAA schools that lack resources and plenty of affluent A schools with abundant resources. I am all for switching over to a DCI/WGI style classifications system tho, since school/band size is not necessarily a harbinger for success Yes very true. Not to hijack this thread but I very much disagree with your second point. School enrollment to create classes is about the only way BOA could divide fairly IMO. Imagine if they did it on average household income values or something - I doubt that would fly. Yes, they could create classes based on past success but I think that is what makes say Grand Nationals so interesting. Anyone can go, and for competitions it truly is everyone is on an even scoring field when it comes to judging ect, I just think that is just more realistic to how life actually is. Of course Marcus TX will never loose to Boiling Springs SC for example, but that even playing field creates more fairness in adjudication I think. I could go on about top 6 bottom 6 but that's a different topic For DCI it kind of makes sense since there really is a pretty stark difference between open and world class, especially in tour schedule's and just the way they operate ect. I think the 3 classes in WGI have gotten a little out of hand. There is certainly a lot of overlap of good (and bad) groups year over year that could be in either, I think it is organization overkill and just kind of waste of energy. But it works and people like it I guess so who am I to throw my hat in the ring lol.
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Post by ohioguy2 on May 23, 2022 12:17:55 GMT -6
Highlighting once again why Tarpon isn't really a AA program... How so? Classifications are by school size, not resources. There are plenty of AAAA schools that lack resources and plenty of affluent A schools with abundant resources. I am all for switching over to a DCI/WGI style classifications system tho, since school/band size is not necessarily a harbinger for success Yeah, this really isn't true, at least from a BOA perspective. No Class A band has made Grand National Finals since 2000. No Class AA band other than Tarpon and Marian has made finals since the current four class system was adopted. Recently, no A or AA bands routinely sniff even the top 20 at GN. The San Antonio Super Regional is even more ridiculously lopsided. This past year, the Class A Champion finished 31st at GN, the AA Champion was 23rd. 20 of the top 30 were Class AAAA bands. Not to put words in the OP's mouth, but there are a lot of really good AA bands that do a lot with substantially fewer students (and inherently, less $) than AAAA bands. However, there is only so much they can do. The system is already set up against them to the point where there is basically only one spot on Saturday night available to them, and then an arts magnet school with unlimited resources that just happens to have a smaller enrollment takes that one spot. I do agree with you on the WGI format, however.
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Post by paddy on May 23, 2022 12:26:32 GMT -6
Highlighting once again why Tarpon isn't really a AA program... How so? Classifications are by school size, not resources. There are plenty of AAAA schools that lack resources and plenty of affluent A schools with abundant resources. I am all for switching over to a DCI/WGI style classifications system tho, since school/band size is not necessarily a harbinger for success A selective performing arts magnet school drawing from a student population of over 100k students k-12 in a school district of nearly 1 million people is a bit different than Jenison or Camdenton. As a comparison, Leander ISD has ~40k kids k-12 and 6 HS that are all AAA or AAAA.
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Post by paddy on May 23, 2022 12:31:59 GMT -6
How so? Classifications are by school size, not resources. There are plenty of AAAA schools that lack resources and plenty of affluent A schools with abundant resources. I am all for switching over to a DCI/WGI style classifications system tho, since school/band size is not necessarily a harbinger for success Yes very true. Not to hijack this thread but I very much disagree with your second point. School enrollment to create classes is about the only way BOA could divide fairly IMO. Imagine if they did it on average household income values or something - I doubt that would fly. Yes, they could create classes based on past success but I think that is what makes say Grand Nationals so interesting. Anyone can go, and for competitions it truly is everyone is on an even scoring field when it comes to judging ect, I just think that is just more realistic to how life actually is. Of course Marcus TX will never loose to Boiling Springs SC for example, but that even playing field creates more fairness in adjudication I think. I could go on about top 6 bottom 6 but that's a different topic For DCI it kind of makes sense since there really is a pretty stark difference between open and world class, especially in tour schedule's and just the way they operate ect. I think the 3 classes in WGI have gotten a little out of hand. There is certainly a lot of overlap of good (and bad) groups year over year that could be in either, I think it is organization overkill and just kind of waste of energy. But it works and people like it I guess so who am I to throw my hat in the ring lol. It is not an even scoring field. It is a judged competition. Personal bias, politics, perception, history, and band size (just a name a few) all color the judging process.
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Post by marimba11 on May 23, 2022 13:26:24 GMT -6
Yes very true. Not to hijack this thread but I very much disagree with your second point. School enrollment to create classes is about the only way BOA could divide fairly IMO. Imagine if they did it on average household income values or something - I doubt that would fly. Yes, they could create classes based on past success but I think that is what makes say Grand Nationals so interesting. Anyone can go, and for competitions it truly is everyone is on an even scoring field when it comes to judging ect, I just think that is just more realistic to how life actually is. Of course Marcus TX will never loose to Boiling Springs SC for example, but that even playing field creates more fairness in adjudication I think. I could go on about top 6 bottom 6 but that's a different topic For DCI it kind of makes sense since there really is a pretty stark difference between open and world class, especially in tour schedule's and just the way they operate ect. I think the 3 classes in WGI have gotten a little out of hand. There is certainly a lot of overlap of good (and bad) groups year over year that could be in either, I think it is organization overkill and just kind of waste of energy. But it works and people like it I guess so who am I to throw my hat in the ring lol. It is not an even scoring field. It is a judged competition. Personal bias, politics, perception, history, and band size (just a name a few) all color the judging process. So adding classes will help these problems you list here? I doubt it. BOA can't do anything about that. Those things have to happen at home or over time. I never said it was an even playing field, that's why I mentioned Marcus and Boiling Springs. Two rather opposite programs in terms of resources ect. But why should BOA divide them? Still don't see a clear argument for it.
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Post by paddy on May 23, 2022 13:35:32 GMT -6
It is not an even scoring field. It is a judged competition. Personal bias, politics, perception, history, and band size (just a name a few) all color the judging process. So adding classes will help these problems you list here? I doubt it. BOA can't do anything about that. Those things have to happen at home or over time. I never said it was an even playing field, that's why I mentioned Marcus and Boiling Springs. Two rather opposite programs in terms of resources ect. But why should BOA divide them? Still don't see a clear argument for it. 1. Even scoring field implies that everyone is being judged by what they bring to the table in terms of performance. That is not true. 2. Marcus and Boiling Springs are more similar in their makeup than Tarpon and Jenison. I never argued about resources or support. I made a point about student population and school composition/mission. 3. I never made a suggestion about adjusting classes thus I not feel compelled to argue about that.
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Post by marimba11 on May 23, 2022 13:47:50 GMT -6
So adding classes will help these problems you list here? I doubt it. BOA can't do anything about that. Those things have to happen at home or over time. I never said it was an even playing field, that's why I mentioned Marcus and Boiling Springs. Two rather opposite programs in terms of resources ect. But why should BOA divide them? Still don't see a clear argument for it. 1. Even scoring field implies that everyone is being judged by what they bring to the table in terms of performance. That is not true. 2. Marcus and Boiling Springs are more similar in their makeup than Tarpon and Jenison. I never argued about resources or support. I made a point about student population and school composition/mission. 3. I never made a suggestion about adjusting classes thus I not feel compelled to argue about that. okay so we agree things aren't fair, yes of course it isn't fair. Great. But Tarpon isn't really a AA program?? I will remind everyone that in 1998 Tarpon was NOT a magnet program, did not pull from 100k students of the county, and made still grand national finals handedly. As they did for many years later in the same situation. Are you saying they should be AAA, AAAA? Still not really understanding...
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Post by paddy on May 23, 2022 14:21:38 GMT -6
1. Even scoring field implies that everyone is being judged by what they bring to the table in terms of performance. That is not true. 2. Marcus and Boiling Springs are more similar in their makeup than Tarpon and Jenison. I never argued about resources or support. I made a point about student population and school composition/mission. 3. I never made a suggestion about adjusting classes thus I not feel compelled to argue about that. okay so we agree things aren't fair, yes of course it isn't fair. Great. But Tarpon isn't really a AA program?? I will remind everyone that in 1998 Tarpon was NOT a magnet program, did not pull from 100k students of the county, and made still grand national finals handedly. As they did for many years later in the same situation. Are you saying they should be AAA, AAAA? Still not really understanding... I don't need you to understand anything. But I will restate to more precisely describe my point: Highlighting once again that Tarpon doesn't really operate like other AA programs.
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Post by marimba11 on May 23, 2022 14:35:21 GMT -6
okay so we agree things aren't fair, yes of course it isn't fair. Great. But Tarpon isn't really a AA program?? I will remind everyone that in 1998 Tarpon was NOT a magnet program, did not pull from 100k students of the county, and made still grand national finals handedly. As they did for many years later in the same situation. Are you saying they should be AAA, AAAA? Still not really understanding... I don't need you to understand anything. But I will restate to more precisely describe my point: Highlighting once again that Tarpon doesn't really operate like other AA programs. They don't really operate like ANY other program. True
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Post by LeanderMomma Fan on May 23, 2022 18:43:01 GMT -6
Confirmed: Prosper H.S.,TX
(Social media post)
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Post by salvation on May 23, 2022 19:42:55 GMT -6
Confirmed: Prosper H.S.,TX (Social media post) Don’t know if I should sit down or stand up for this one…
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Post by LeanderMomma on May 23, 2022 20:30:11 GMT -6
Confirmed: Prosper H.S.,TX (Social media post) Don’t know if I should sit down or stand up for this one… 🤣🤣
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Post by saturdaynightlights on May 23, 2022 20:36:42 GMT -6
How so? Classifications are by school size, not resources. There are plenty of AAAA schools that lack resources and plenty of affluent A schools with abundant resources. I am all for switching over to a DCI/WGI style classifications system tho, since school/band size is not necessarily a harbinger for success A selective performing arts magnet school drawing from a student population of over 100k students k-12 in a school district of nearly 1 million people is a bit different than Jenison or Camdenton. As a comparison, Leander ISD has ~40k kids k-12 and 6 HS that are all AAA or AAAA. In fairness, if we're using LISD as the comparison (or really any strong ISD in Texas), the key to a lot of the great programs (not all) is great teaching at the High School AND middle school levels. I'd wager that the 30th strongest middle school band in Texas is better than the best middle school players Pinellas has to offer. Not saying that anyone is better or worse, but it's all about the different ways to achieve excellence.
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Post by es203 on May 23, 2022 21:02:18 GMT -6
It's crazy that we have 5 Texas groups and it's possible that none of them make finals, this bubble is FUN.
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Post by josephbandfan on May 23, 2022 21:16:25 GMT -6
It's crazy that we have 5 Texas groups and it's possible that none of them make finals, this bubble is FUN. The very thought of that shakes me to the core. At least one must prevail and keep the Texas streak going! But I do like this batch of Texas bands and hope more "non locks" go in the future.
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Post by Jake W. on May 23, 2022 22:31:51 GMT -6
With Prosper announcing, the other "sort-of-announced" band we're waiting on is Dobyns-Bennett, who has GN on their "2022 Important Dates" flyer but not on their calendar. Other than that, Wando & Blue Springs have not released their 2022 calendars yet (to my knowledge). Beyond those groups, I can't think of another big name band whose attendance would be in question.
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Post by supersound on May 23, 2022 22:58:11 GMT -6
It's crazy that we have 5 Texas groups and it's possible that none of them make finals, this bubble is FUN. I can guarantee at least one Texas group will make finals
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Post by Marching Observer on May 23, 2022 23:09:11 GMT -6
I also do not foresee all Texas groups missing finals. Currently, I have one safely in and 3 more in various states of bubbles. Certainly none as your traditional lock. I think we'll see a lot of new finalists this year.
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Post by LeanderMomma Fan on May 23, 2022 23:11:04 GMT -6
It's crazy that we have 5 Texas groups and it's possible that none of them make finals, this bubble is FUN. I can guarantee at least one Texas group will make finals I can guarantee Seven Lakes and M.G. Johnson, Prosper will likely also be there. Odds say that 1-2 groups will miss finals.
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Post by paddy on May 24, 2022 6:34:37 GMT -6
A selective performing arts magnet school drawing from a student population of over 100k students k-12 in a school district of nearly 1 million people is a bit different than Jenison or Camdenton. As a comparison, Leander ISD has ~40k kids k-12 and 6 HS that are all AAA or AAAA. In fairness, if we're using LISD as the comparison (or really any strong ISD in Texas), the key to a lot of the great programs (not all) is great teaching at the High School AND middle school levels. I'd wager that the 30th strongest middle school band in Texas is better than the best middle school players Pinellas has to offer. Not saying that anyone is better or worse, but it's all about the different ways to achieve excellence. Yeah, not what the comparison was about.
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Post by marimba11 on May 24, 2022 9:09:42 GMT -6
A selective performing arts magnet school drawing from a student population of over 100k students k-12 in a school district of nearly 1 million people is a bit different than Jenison or Camdenton. As a comparison, Leander ISD has ~40k kids k-12 and 6 HS that are all AAA or AAAA. In fairness, if we're using LISD as the comparison (or really any strong ISD in Texas), the key to a lot of the great programs (not all) is great teaching at the High School AND middle school levels. I'd wager that the 30th strongest middle school band in Texas is better than the best middle school players Pinellas has to offer. Not saying that anyone is better or worse, but it's all about the different ways to achieve excellence. Hmm... I don't buy it. But the is no way to prove or disprove
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Post by marimba11 on May 24, 2022 9:14:42 GMT -6
With Prosper announcing, the other "sort-of-announced" band we're waiting on is Dobyns-Bennett, who has GN on their "2022 Important Dates" flyer but not on their calendar. Other than that, Wando & Blue Springs have not released their 2022 calendars yet (to my knowledge). Beyond those groups, I can't think of another big name band whose attendance would be in question. Correct, Wando should put up their calendar any day now
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Post by paddy on May 24, 2022 9:24:26 GMT -6
In fairness, if we're using LISD as the comparison (or really any strong ISD in Texas), the key to a lot of the great programs (not all) is great teaching at the High School AND middle school levels. I'd wager that the 30th strongest middle school band in Texas is better than the best middle school players Pinellas has to offer. Not saying that anyone is better or worse, but it's all about the different ways to achieve excellence. Hmm... I don't buy it. But the is no way to prove or disprove Never question the supremacy of Texas band.
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Post by LeanderMomma on May 24, 2022 9:31:32 GMT -6
I also do not foresee all Texas groups missing finals. Currently, I have one safely in and 3 more in various states of bubbles. Certainly none as your traditional lock. I think we'll see a lot of new finalists this year. It’s also helpful to remember that Southlake Carroll finished 12th in the 6A state marching band competition last fall and Seven Lakes finished 14th. Both of those finishes put them in contention for finals at GN IMHO.
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Post by LeanderMomma on May 24, 2022 9:35:06 GMT -6
Hmm... I don't buy it. But the is no way to prove or disprove Never question the supremacy of Texas band. What’s really cool about this year is that we have NONE of our top tier Texas bands going to GN. I am happy about that because it’s going to give folks a chance to see some new faces from the state that tends to only send it’s very best to Grand Nationals. It’s possibly a new era and I like it!
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Post by principalagent on May 24, 2022 9:56:40 GMT -6
In fairness, if we're using LISD as the comparison (or really any strong ISD in Texas), the key to a lot of the great programs (not all) is great teaching at the High School AND middle school levels. I'd wager that the 30th strongest middle school band in Texas is better than the best middle school players Pinellas has to offer. Not saying that anyone is better or worse, but it's all about the different ways to achieve excellence. Hmm... I don't buy it. But the is no way to prove or disprove The fact that Texas middle school bands sweep Midwest most years could be evidence to the point. Texas high school bands easily have more placements at Midwest than any other state. Texas middle schools have more band placements than every other state combined. I’m actually sure that you could double the number of placements from the other 49 states and that would still be true. Not only did Texas middle schools sweep wind band placements for this December—they swept every single middle school performance category. This was not the first year that has happened, either. No other state is doing what Texas middle schools at full scale do in musical performance in all instrumental avenues. Period. Consider that every Texas high school has about 2-3 middle schools feeding them, and how many extremely strong marching and concert programs there are in the state, it doesn’t take long to get to 30. The 30th best program probably still feeds a Top 10 5A or 6A finalist, and perhaps a top 5.
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